Curse

Shadow Slasher · Jan 22, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Duelist (Du)

Cunning (Primary): For each point in Cunning, you gain a 0.5% chance to add bleeding or a deep wound.
Skills example: Duelists Expertise - The chance of inflicting a random condition on your opponent is increased by 25-100%

Rapier Mastery: For each point in Rapier Mastery, Duelists will do higher damage with Rapier weapons, as well as increase the chance of delivering a critical hit.
Ex: Vital Stab - Attack an opponents vital point and cause bleeding for 6...14 seconds.

Dueling: Dueling increases the attacks of Dueling based skills. This attribute gives the duelist an advantage in 1 on 1 fights.
Ex: "Bad Form!" - Shout. Opponent is demoralized by 2... 14% for 7 seconds.

Observation: The duelist observes the opponents playing style to give him an edge in combat.
Ex: Plagerism - Spell. Copy the next skill your opponent uses. This skill is treated as if you have 1...12 points in that attribute. You may use this skill once and it will revert to Plagerism. This skill is disabled for 30 seconds.

No Attribute skill Ex: "En Guarde!" (sp?) - Shout. You and your opponent have +20 armor. This skill ends when one of you attack. If your opponent attacks first, you counter the damage done and attack with 150% of the damage your opponent's attack did.

Sounds a little overpowered and even a little cheesy >_> *Holds up flame shield*

holababe · Jan 23, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Yes, it is very overpowered

draxynnic · Jan 23, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

And somewhat cheesy

.

Specifically:

Duelist's Expertise: I'm not sure if you've deliberately made this overpowered...

By my understanding, skills that add a % chance to do something add a flat percentage, even when a percentage has been set by another factor (such as an attribute). Now, I think your intent may be to increase it by 25-100% of the chance set by Cunning in the first place, but the common reading is that with high enough Cunning and Duelist's Expertise, you're scoring Bleeding or Deep Wound with every hit. (Which, given the right costs involved, is on par with a Ranger using Apply Poison or Barbed Arrows preps if it was Bleeding only, but Deep Wound is more powerful - I'd be tempted to remove it from the attribute entirely.) If your intent is what I initially thought, try giving absolute numbers instead of relative, although to get the exact result you want you may need to break the normal attribute progression rules.

On the primary attribute itself: As stated, Deep Wound can be a pretty nasty condition to inflict, so I'd leave that to attack skills. As a general comment - uncontrolled infliction of conditions can be a double-edged sword if your target has Plague Touch or a similar skill.

"Bad Form": I don't really see how shouting this at someone is going to cause them to lose hit points and energy, even temporarily

. A better representation of demoralisation via this shout could be to impose a penalty to the target's attack rate or damage, possibly worsened by or relying on some condition that the duellist considers to be 'bad form' (ie the target is Enchanted, the Duellist is suffering from Blind and/or Weakness, or something of that nature).

Plagiarism: Mesmers need an elite and a cross-attribute skill to even approximate this...

I also have a conceptual issue with this skill, as I don't see duellists as spellcasters (I suppose they could be duelling wizards...) relying, if you'll excuse the cliche, purely on their wits. Ergo, to rebalance and fit the 'duellist' concept better, it would probably be better as a skill that can copy non-Spell skills. (This could still be a little weird when you copy some skills like Shock and Plague Touch which, while not technically spells, certainly seem to rely on magical training to use, but on the whole it should limit the Duellist to copying skills that don't require magical training.)

En Garde: Either easily broken (target wands one of your allies to break the skill) or liable to result in weirdness (target wands one of your allies to break the skill, and the damage is negated and you deal 150% back, even though you're on the other side of the aggro bubble to your ally). I'd suggest making the armour bonus only work on each other (this prevents exploits, like you or the target avoiding the other specifically to keep the armour bonus), and the breaking of the skill and the 'riposte' effect only working in melee and against each other. This way, it gives you a chance to close against a ranged attacker and some defense against a melee attacker due to the riposte effect.

What You Haven't Said: You've given us a list of skills and attributes, but not a general playstyle. Just what, exactly, are you aiming for? And why is that different enough to previous classes (especially the Warrior) to justify creating a new class rather than adding new skills to existing classes?

actionjack · Jan 23, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I think the given skills are alright. I dislike the primary's effect, as it is just too limited. Other attribute has its own share of potentials.

Whats the inspirational source for your duelist?

System_Crush · Jan 23, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

I like duelists, but your primary is pretty much bland, yea.
at 16 you have 16% chance to inflict a condition each hit, and 1% to inflict both at the same time.
For bleeding thats ok, though its not the most usefull primary counting the amount of non fleshies.

Deep Wound(which I do not think works on non fleshies either) is a bit thougher as it makes for an easyer kill, especially when using heavy degen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slasher

Duelists Expertise - The chance of inflicting a random condition on your opponent is increased by 25-100%

Ugly overpowered, its should fefinatly not be above 20%, and how are you going to cause burn with a rapier?
(could be I'm misreading it)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slasher

Plagerism - Spell. Copy the next skill your opponent uses. This skill is treated as if you have 1...12 points in that attribute. You may use this skill once and it will revert to Plagerism. This skill is disabled for 30 seconds.

No skill stealing with inherit atribute, its unfair, what if it where a minion or spirit spell or something else with a very long duration, when well timed you get past the 1 use and 30 second lock easely.

I think you should make cunning based on cheapshotting, more original than conditions anyway.
Cunning (Primary)
For each point in this atribute you gain 1% chance for your attacks to ignore armour(have 100% penetration)

As I said more original than conditions, just count how many mele classes do we have and how many of them deal out conditions?
Also it says attacks not rapier attacks just like strenght and critical strikes it affects all attacks as a primary is suposed to be usefull for secondairy classes as well.

Quicker than the Eye Skill energy 5 activation 1/4 recharge -
Target foe cannot block or evade the next attack against them, if that foe was using a signet, that foe is interupted and this skill takes 10...6(4) seconds to recharge.(Cuning)

And rename Rapier Mastery Fencing, it sounds much more duelist like.

Shoulder Shish Rapier Attack energy 15 activation next attack recharge 12
For 10 seconds, the next 1...4(5) attacks by target foe fail.(Fencing)

That skill is a subtle hint to make the duelist protect himself like one, using parries and attack prevention instead of evade or block stances.
Parry = a garantied block for the next attack(preferably reaplied by something) also in GW as wariors already have several.

P.S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slasher

"Bad Form!" - Shout. Opponent is demoralized by 2... 14% for 7 seconds.

to demoralise by 14 your character should make a more offencive comment than "Bad Form"

System_Crush · Jan 23, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

By the way what do you think of multiple weapon atributes?
Sabres and (my personal favorite)Talons where also used in duelling, maybe multiple weapon atributes for players to chose from, whould game wise back the diferent styles of duealling.
Just a though.

riojin · Jan 23, 2007, 09:42 AM // 09:42

not more melee

tacitus · Jan 23, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I want a cunning attribute

Shadow Slasher · Jan 23, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Yeah, I know a lot of it is misleading or overpowered. More comments on what to change would be nice.
By the way, Duelists Cunning was meant to add 25-100% more. As in if you had a 5% base chance, at max it would make it 10%.

jon0592 · Jan 24, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

En Guarde seems kind of cheap, because seeing as it is instanced, (no casting time, no fore-warning) they will most likely trigger it, where you on the other hand know to stop attacking.

draxynnic · Jan 25, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon0592

En Guarde seems kind of cheap, because seeing as it is instanced, (no casting time, no fore-warning) they will most likely trigger it, where you on the other hand know to stop attacking.

Not really. In such a situation, it's just like Riposte... except that Riposte isn't broken if you attack.

In fact, it's probably worse than Riposte, since Riposte does a significant packet of armour-ignoring damage, while En Garde only does standard weapon damage (keep in mind the +20 to armour that the skill provides to both sides) unless you manage to get them just as they're using an attack skill.